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[What's Burning?]

650 Bhp is pretty special for a 1.6 liter.

Is McLaren's contract with Mercedes over after the 2012 season?

Maybe this is encouragement for VAG to buy HRT.

Now that SAAB is out from under GM they'd stick their toe in the water as well. I remember in the mid 90's Saab was producing the most powerful turbo engines per liter. Yes we're talking production cars and this is F1, but production might is what it takes especially when everyone is starting off with a clean sheet of paper.

[AKR]

650 Bhp is pretty special for a 1.6 liter.

Is McLaren's contract with Mercedes over after the 2012 season?

Maybe this is encouragement for VAG to buy HRT.

Now that SAAB is out from under GM they'd stick their toe in the water as well. I remember in the mid 90's Saab was producing the most powerful turbo engines per liter. Yes we're talking production cars and this is F1, but production might is what it takes especially when everyone is starting off with a clean sheet of paper.

Yes Saab cars before GM fully bought them were good. I used to have a 93 Viggen. It was very fast. Saabs after around 2001 were not that good. Hopefully now that Spyker has taken it off GM that they will reserrect the real Saab back.

[bud]

Is McLaren's contract with Mercedes over after the 2012 season?

Um not sure, since Mercedes bought out Brawn everything changed. McLaren is a customer now(albeit a special one still as it has the Merc branding) So considering Mercedes bought out McLarens contract with them so they can go alone, im sure they would honour McLaren the same benefit if they wanted to go alone But from what ive been reading over the last year McLaren is poised to produce their own F1 engine. They were talking of buying out BMW's old engine plant but backed out due to the current climate of the "green" era of well everything these days. Smelling a change in the engine regs on the horizon they thought they would continue with Mercedes considering with the current engine regs it is the most powerful engine out there. And wait for the next engine regs to come out which no doubt would be cheaper to produce as well as greener.

[Fred_C_Dobbs]

I wouldnt mind V6 turbos....

A 1.5-litre twin turbo Ferrari V-6 from the 1989 F1 car:

650 Bhp is pretty special for a 1.6 liter.

Is McLaren's contract with Mercedes over after the 2012 season?...

The 1988 BMW F1 mills turned 1300 bhp on 1.5 litres for qualies. They turned the boost down to produce just 800-900 bhp for the race proper. That was special.

Merc have signed with McLaren as sponsor and engine supplier through 2015. Merc bought 75% -- controlling interest -- of Brawn GP which means the team will run whatever engines Mercedes tell them to. There is tension between the two parent companies because McLaren feel they were locked out of development of the SLS AMG. It would be unlike Mercedes to let McLaren "off the hook," especially since McLaren would use the success (if any) of their F1 engines to promote what is essentially a rival marque.

[bud]

You're failing to take into account McLaren automotive. It was Mercedes that was not pleased about McLaren pursuing their road car ambitions especially with McLaren and not Mercedes engines powering the things, as it will be rival to Mercedes sports cars. This is ultimately what lead to Mercedes buy out of Brawn, the privateer championship winning team who had their engines.
McLaren and Mercedes have a unique relationship but nothing will stop McLaren from using their own F1 engines when the time comes!

[Fred_C_Dobbs]

You're failing to take into account McLaren automotive. It was Mercedes that was not pleased about McLaren pursuing their road car ambitions especially with McLaren and not Mercedes engines powering the things, as it will be rival to Mercedes sports cars. This is ultimately what lead to Mercedes buy out of Brawn, the privateer championship winning team who had their engines.
McLaren and Mercedes have a unique relationship but nothing will stop McLaren from using their own F1 engines when the time comes!

I'm not failing to take anything into account. That Mercedes consider McLaren a legitimate competitor is all the more reason not to let them use the F1 team they control as an advertising tool against them. You're failing to take into account that Mercedes own 75% of Vodafone McLaren Mercedes. That means they get to make the rules. The team will use whatever engine Merc tell them to and they have a legally binding contract to provide the team with Mercedes engines through 2015.

[bud]

Um you should go research mate! They sold their shares back to McLaren which were only 40% never were they 75%!

[f1ea]

I wouldnt mind V6 turbos....

A 1.5-litre twin turbo Ferrari V-6 from the 1989 F1 car:

That's a pretty engine.

Um you should go research mate! They sold their shares back to McLaren which were only 40% never were they 75%!

Think he meant 75% of Mercedes GP aka Brawn. 75 is what mercedes wanted to have at McL but were never able to get, so they headed elsewhere...

That Mclaren do have a contract with Merc engines means they can use whichever engine they choose to, after the contarct expires. Not much of a surprise there...

[bud]

No he said they own McLaren and will tell them what engines to use! McLaren had a contract with Mercedes as the only works team which was broken when the bought out brawn! Contracts can be broken Mercedes won't stop McLaren from using their own engines just as McLaren didn't stop Mercedes from having their own car!

[Fred_C_Dobbs]

Um you should go research mate! They sold their shares back to McLaren which were only 40% never were they 75%!

You are right on both counts. I stand corrected.

But what remains to be seen is how McLaren will deal with their engine contract with Mercedes, which AFAIK still extends through 2015. One decision McLaren will have to consider is the result of losing any influence over Mercedes' engine sales. It appears to be the strongest mill in F1 and to this point McLaren and Brawn have succeeded in preventing Mercedes leasing them to any more of their competitors.

[Hammer278]

My dream would be for BMW to reenter F1 as an engine supplier and supply McLaren engines from 2015...that would be absolutely badass. McLarenF1 anyone? NA engine mated with the McLaren supercar, a decade ago, still holds the top speed record!(for NA engines)

[McHare]

I'd like to see F1 help to develop more efficient engines. I'd just much prefer more open rules than the current. Give them a fuel flow limit then allow the teams to sort out the most efficient way to burn it. End of

[hesketh308]

I'd like to see F1 help to develop more efficient engines. I'd just much prefer more open rules than the current. Give them a fuel flow limit then allow the teams to sort out the most efficient way to burn it. End of

F1 engines are incredibly fuel efficient, it's just the amount of downforce put on the car with all the aero that gives such low MPG.

[Fred_C_Dobbs]

I'd like to see F1 help to develop more efficient engines. I'd just much prefer more open rules than the current. Give them a fuel flow limit then allow the teams to sort out the most efficient way to burn it. End of

F1 engines are incredibly fuel efficient, it's just the amount of downforce put on the car with all the aero that gives such low MPG.

Efficient in terms of power produced, yes. Efficient in terms of volume of fuel consumed per distance driven, no. They're too rev-happy.

It takes 10,000 RPMs to make anything of consequence happen and peak Q is up around 14,000 RPMs. Peak BHP is closer to 17,000 and those kinds of RPMs necessarily also means enormous frictional losses.

And the tyres create more drag than the wings.

[bud]

And the tyres create more drag than the wings.

the inevitable curse of the open wheeler