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User avatar
By bud
#64534
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdy6qzI2-A4 Suzuka 05 - Alonso V Klien
Similar incident to Hamiltonand Raikkonen. Well as similar as you could get.
After a few laps Alonso was told by the team to let Klien back through or face a penalty (which he did).


Well Alonso outbraked himself there didnt while Lewis was not over the limits

but Fernando was told to let him repass because the stewards informed Renault to do so. there was no such courtesy for Hamiltonand McLaren infact quite the opposite

so no this incident isnt that similar when you think about it
#64535
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdy6qzI2-A4 Suzuka 05 - Alonso V Klien
Similar incident to Hamiltonand Raikkonen. Well as similar as you could get.
After a few laps Alonso was told by the team to let Klien back through or face a penalty (which he did).


Well Alonso outbraked himself there didnt while Lewis was not over the limits

but Fernando was told to let him repass because the stewards informed Renault to do so. there was no such courtesy for Hamiltonand McLaren infact quite the opposite

so no this incident isnt that similar when you think about it

Exactly.
User avatar
By EwanM
#64538
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdy6qzI2-A4 Suzuka 05 - Alonso V Klien
Similar incident to Hamiltonand Raikkonen. Well as similar as you could get.
After a few laps Alonso was told by the team to let Klien back through or face a penalty (which he did).


Well Alonso outbraked himself there didnt while Lewis was not over the limits

but Fernando was told to let him repass because the stewards informed Renault to do so. there was no such courtesy for Hamiltonand McLaren infact quite the opposite

so no this incident isnt that similar when you think about it

Exactly.


Yes, but it makes you think why there was proper communication between Renault and the FIA while not with Mclaren. Sure they asked if the move was ok, but there really wasn't the clarity.
#64539
You're right that the incidents are similar but for me the key difference is that Klein gave Alonso plenty of room around the outside, while Raikkonen did not do the same for Hamilton. Also on a dry track it was much easier to see whether the advantage stemmed from missing the corner rather than the performance differences between the two cars. In the wet performance differences are always exaggerated so it wasn't clear cut.
#64540
Race control are in charge of these types of incidents. If you do something wrong, Whiting gets on the radio to the teams to inform them and when necessary passes information onto the stewards. At the weekend, McLaren were told twice by race control that Hamilton's pass was legitimate, but yet Whiting went behind the McLaren's back and informed the stewards about the incident. What a b@st@rd. If he had any doubts, he should have said and McLaren would have told Hamilton to allow Raikkonen to pass him again.
User avatar
By EwanM
#64549
Race control are in charge of these types of incidents. If you do something wrong, Whiting gets on the radio to the teams to inform them and when necessary passes information onto the stewards. At the weekend, McLaren were told twice by race control that Hamilton's pass was legitimate, but yet Whiting went behind the McLaren's back and informed the stewards about the incident. What a b@st@rd. If he had any doubts, he should have said and McLaren would have told Hamilton to allow Raikkonen to pass him again.


Maybe that's FIA practice. :rofl:
User avatar
By KyrosV
#64572
Several of Lewis Hamilton’s fellow drivers believe the Briton did gain a clear advantage by cutting the chicane at last week’s Belgian Grand Prix, although they agree that his demotion to third place was probably too severe.


With the controversy over the stewards’ decision to strip Hamilton of race victory still raging as the season moves onto Monza, the drivers appearing in Thursday’s press conference were naturally asked about their views on the incident.


Toro Rosso’s Sebastien Bourdais reckons the retrospective time penalty imposed on the McLaren driver was harsh, but nevertheless believes stewards were correct to issue some sort of punishment.


“I think the rules are very clear,” Bourdais said.



“Maybe the penalty was a bit hard, but I think he's made the same mistake [cutting chicanes] twice: he's done it in Magny-Cours and he's done it again in Spa.


“I don't really understand why there's been such a mess around it.


“There's a rule book and everybody has to obey the same thing.


“The penalty is really rough but in the end it's up to you to give the position back or not. Pretty straightforward.”


The Frenchman added that Hamilton had left himself exposed to the possibility of a stewards’ investigation.


“You have to be responsible for what you decide to do, and in this particular case, if you do gain an advantage like I said, you just give it back and make sure that you don't expose yourself to penalties,” he said.


“I think it's the easiest way to handle it.”


While McLaren data proved that Hamilton slowed to allow Ferrari rival Kimi Raikkonen to re-pass him on rejoining the track, it is believed the stewards felt his track cutting still gained him an advantage as he almost immediately overtook the Finn again.


Nico Rosberg agrees that Hamilton would not have been right on the gearbox of the Ferrari had he gone around the Bus Stop as normal – although he too feels the penalty was out of proportion with how the race’s final two laps played out.




“I definitely agree [with my colleagues], because he did get an advantage, because he wouldn't have been that close behind Kimi had he not cut the chicane,” the Williams driver said.


“But then again, I also think the penalty was a bit harsh as that did not have such a big effect on the actual race result in the end.”


Toyota’s Jarno Trulli added: “The penalty was quite big but I'm not a steward and I cannot decide what kind of penalty should be given.


“But on the other hand, it was very clear that he got an advantage out of it, so that's where it is. The rules are very clear.


“If you cut the chicane and you get an advantage, you just have to drop back and give back the position and in Lewis's case he shouldn't have attacked straight away at the next corner; that was it.”


Felipe Massa, the man who benefited most from Hamilton’s demotion as he inherited the race victory, claimed earlier in the week that his title rival had been “too optimistic” and said he had not changed his view on Thursday.


“To be honest, I've given my ideas on this many times about what happened," Massa said.


“What's happened is that he took an advantage by cutting the chicane.


“You can ask other drivers how many overtaking manoeuvres you see there: no overtaking.


“Going from the last corner to the first corner is such a small straight, so he took an advantage, that's clear, that's my opinion, so it doesn't change.”
#64573
I really doubt the drivers think that, Max probably told them to back the decision up or face having their superlicence revoked. :rolleyes:
#64576
Seriously do you think the sport is that seriously corrupt?

why bother watching it?

It's an opinion and nothing more!
#64577
I don't think the drivers who have said these things are lying, but since they are on the side of the stewards they won't fear any consequences. It's the drivers who have a problem with the stewards ruling who would fear future problems from speaking out, so if some drivers feel Hamilton's been hard done by but aren't prepared to say so I don't blame them.
#64578
I don't think the drivers who have said these things are lying, but since they are on the side of the stewards they won't fear any consequences. It's the drivers who have a problem with the stewards ruling who would fear future problems from speaking out, so if some drivers feel Hamilton's been hard done by but aren't prepared to say so I don't blame them.

Exactly.
User avatar
By EwanM
#64590
I don't think the drivers who have said these things are lying, but since they are on the side of the stewards they won't fear any consequences. It's the drivers who have a problem with the stewards ruling who would fear future problems from speaking out, so if some drivers feel Hamilton's been hard done by but aren't prepared to say so I don't blame them.

Exactly.


At the same time, those who have said anything are the usual culprits.
I don't think Massa is gonna support Hamilton.
I don't think Alonso is gonna support Hamilton.
And well Trulli... he just wants some attention.

Where's the Webber... he usually says something about these things.
#64591
Where's the Webber... he usually says something about these things.

I was just thinking about Webber coming out and having his say because he was the first driver to have a go at Mad Max in the umpalumpa scandal but he's probably more likely to have a go at Kovalainen for his attempted pass. We need Sutil's opinion because he is "really really good friends" with Lewis. :P

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